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Working to horrify xterminal

HopeObamaHopeEconomicrecoveryHopeReligiousfreedomHopeLivingtheCOTUS

Hope - New President!! Not like the old one. :P~~~~

*laughs gleefully*

Comments

( 16 comments — Leave a comment )
xterminal
Jan. 20th, 2009 10:46 pm (UTC)
But when none of it happens, will you place the blame where it belongs, or find ludicrous ways to blame it on people who haven't been in power for years?

I see some of that already happening, and the guy's been in office for four hours. It's pathetic. The people on Capitol Hill who thought they could have that horrifying national health care bill on his desk to be signed tomorrow, every last one of them, should have known that pushing it through Congress was an impossibility. But now that it's quite thankfully dead, who's to blame?

Just because Bush is a moron doesn't necessarily mean he should also be a scapegoat.
pjvj
Jan. 21st, 2009 12:33 am (UTC)
I am pretty even. I blame Bush for his 8 years of fail. I will blame Obama for not fixing it. Both of those are wrong, and not really accurate since the housing bubble that went fffftttttt was not only Bush. It was in fact many Presidents turning a blind eye to reality and hoping against hope it didn't burst on their watch. So, that wasn't all Bush. And if Obama doesn't get it fixed it won't be all him, but he'll still get the blame.

My expectation is for him to take a shot at the things he wants to change. I do not expect everything to get fixed, especially without pain to the citizens who have been skating in the responsibility area for far too long.

I expect serious work on returning the COTUS to its rightful respectful place and dismantling programs and laws that whittle its power away.

I hope to see his ability to mobilize the masses to get that community service he is asking for. If people get off their asses and do *something* for a pet cause it would do wonders for the economy and morale of this country. This last thing is what I hope for most. People reaching out, doing, and taking away the need of large entitlement programs. People rediscovering that we live in community and that requires some responsibility. This last? Comes from hermit me. :P~

Bush isn't a scapegoat for most of the ills of the last 8 years, he is the moron who caused them. I seriously loathe the man and his policies. He could have been from any party and I would have felt the same. He doesn't need to be a scapegoat with all he has done and not done for this country.
xterminal
Jan. 21st, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
I seriously loathe the man and his policies.

As do I. But here:

Bush isn't a scapegoat for most of the ills of the last 8 years, he is the moron who caused them.

You're making the same mistake everyone else does: overvaluing the role of the President. (And you really don't see the cognitive disconnect with:

So, that wasn't all Bush.

...? The housing bust was just one part of the larger economic problem, which economists have been stressing for decades cannot be affected by a single person, no matter how powerful.)

The only ills for which Bush is directly responsible are in Iraq. And, let's be fair, he was just continuing what was started by his father and continued happily by Clinton. In fact, every conflict we're currently considering becoming a part of had both Bush sr. and Clinton's hands in-- North Korea, Afghanistan, the works. It's all been three presidencies in the making. Probably more. (Anything that has to do with Iran, obviously, goes back a hell of a lot farther.) All of the economic crap has been coming for a lot longer than Bush has been in office. It's all interrelated, and the root of it goes back at least seventy years (and probably a great deal farther, but the lynchpin that broke was FDR taking America off the gold standard and setting the stage for double-digit inflation).

But, again-- how does Bush have anything to do with a bunch of morons not being able to get a ludicrous health care bill through Congress? There is no way he could possibly be responsible for its failure. But here come the pundits complaining...
pjvj
Jan. 21st, 2009 03:12 am (UTC)
>>>You're making the same mistake everyone else does: overvaluing the role of the President.<<<

Wrong. Other Presidents cared more about getting Congressional agreement before initiating a war. Cared more about public approval ratings (whether that is a good thing or not is a different debate) rather than bulldoging ahead with stupid shit.

I don't overvalue the role of the President, but I do believe the proper person can be greatly inspiring to get the citizens doing what they need to do. Part the doing, other than the community service I previously mentioned, is caring about who our Congressional Reps are, and voting for the changes we need/want/ etc.

I do not believe Bush was a motivator of people, especially young people. Obama is. A country cannot succeed if their young are not energized toward some purpose(s).

He cannot even complete coherent sentences. He has greatly diminished our image worldwide and that does matter is a global economy.

His silly tax rebates that just drove up the deficit. His tax laws that favored mainly those who needed help the least.

The Patriot Act - all him - no, but when a CEO screws a company and gets hammered for it you don't run around blaming the workforce and in the case of the Patriot Act Congress was simply a workforce.

As for the economic ills, I used the housing bubble as an example of him not doing anything because he TOO did not. It is not untrue he did nothing but push it further, same as everyone else. I do not blame him for starting conflicts in places like Afghanistan, but I sure as hell blame for how he handled it during his terms with pulling too many troops from there to bulk up his pet war which cost more troop lives in Afghanistan.

My loathing for him comes mostly for the Iraq war. I will not blame his dad for his invasion. That is crap. He is a war monger who surrounded himself with supporting players to carry out his fantasies. He is a sick fuck.

>>>how does Bush have anything to do with a bunch of morons not being able to get a ludicrous health care bill through Congress? There is no way he could possibly be responsible for its failure.<<<

You've mentioned this twice - I've not blamed Bush for it. Frankly, I don't even know the details of the plan, and I don't give a rat's ass what the pundits say.

The first 4 years of Bush all I heard was Clinton blame from the right. Bush, with the lowest approval ratings since Nixon is an easy target for the pundits to lay blame for quite awhile - but who really cares what the pundits think? :P~

I do also realize that my optimism, though often unfounded, usually ends up being fairly on point. My cynicism usually is on point, too, and depending on the subject you see one or the other. I admit that how beaten down I've felt by the Bush Administration and his DC and business allies may have upped my optimism a notch higher than it normally would have been.

Even taking that into account - my whole body and I swear the Earth herself heaved a sigh of relief when the helicopter took off with the Bushes and headed out of DC. The feeling of relief alone will do a lot for me, my family, my community. It may not make any logical sense, but when things are shitty, often just the idea of change does more to start to bring it about that any actual action taken, if that makes sense to you.

Through Reagan and Clinton and the Bushes I never felt the energy and the hope of the populace as I do now. I hope it lasts. I trust the people much more than I trust the government.
musiquephan
Jan. 21st, 2009 03:24 am (UTC)
Amen.
xterminal
Jan. 22nd, 2009 01:57 am (UTC)
>>>how does Bush have anything to do with a bunch of morons not being able to get a ludicrous health care bill through Congress? There is no way he could possibly be responsible for its failure.<<<

You've mentioned this twice - I've not blamed Bush for it. Frankly, I don't even know the details of the plan, and I don't give a rat's ass what the pundits say.


But unless I misread the title of this post, it was an explicit reaction to my complaining about this in the first place. You can see where I would have drawn the conclusion that you were disagreeing.

And now I think I understand all this, between your remarks and Penda's-- you really do think that this country of lazy motherfuckers can be inspired to do anything.

More power to ya. I hope I'm wrong.
pjvj
Jan. 22nd, 2009 03:30 am (UTC)
Ohhhh - you are right about your post! Of course you thought that!

Honestly, X, I just took the "you crazy people are horrifying" and decided to tweak you. I've read enough of your posts to know how you feel. I noticed the comments were off on that post and I understood why. Teasing you with the title was too irresistible to pass up! :P~

I am an optimist about most things, even more so as I get older which I guess is ass backwards, but my cynicism was eating me up and I had to tame it. Penda has an optimist's overlay on her cynicism, too, but I am probably more .... starry-eyed about mine.

I do appreciate your comments on this post. You make people explain the why and it helps me to fine tune my thinking by typing it out.

I do believe a lot of people can be inspired to do something. The lazy motherfuckers will not so much be inspired to, but be forced to, unless they want to lose what little they have.

I hope you are wrong, too.
xterminal
Jan. 22nd, 2009 04:54 am (UTC)
The lazy motherfuckers will not so much be inspired to, but be forced to, unless they want to lose what little they have.

Now you're talking fascism.

That is not a criticism.

I've always been something of a proto-fascist from a strictly pragmatic point of view; fascism is the only extant political system that does not rely on the citizen's willingness to work. It's the only one where you can actually force the citizen to do something and not be breaking the rules. And yeah, I completely believe we're there, and that, for that matter, we've been heading there for at least 20-30 years.

Of course, the problem with fascism is that the only guy who's really qualified to be running the system is the one guy who doesn't want to be running the system, because power corrupts. As soon as you can say "dance, my little slaves, dance" with a straight face, you're already too tempted to make them do things that are not in the best interests of the country in general, but in your own (or those of the hands that are feeding you)...
pjvj
Jan. 22nd, 2009 05:39 am (UTC)
I happen to believe there are fewer lazy motherfuckers than you believe there are - limited fascism perhaps?

Of course, it is the lazy motherfuckers who will not take any blame for failure, but they wouldn't no matter what type of government is in place. Most people I think will at least accept partial blame. Ok, that may be the optimist in me.

Edited at 2009-01-22 05:40 am (UTC)
pendamuse
Jan. 21st, 2009 05:52 am (UTC)
When none of it happens, the blame will be on the America people.

Obama says "we" a lot because it takes more than one man and a bunch of elected officials to make this country work. It takes the people this country is made from, not segregated into Blue and Red and Rich and Poor. McCain said a lot of "I". "When I get into office." "This is what I will do." It was more of the same, more finger-pointing, more blame.

We'd just had that and we didn't want anymore. We all have to work together, to bring about change, not sit back and wait for change to happen. We looked to the government to save us from the bad men, and we've been mired in a war on two fronts ever since. We looked to the government to bail out the banks, and the banks f*cked us by giving themselves raises and sticking their hand out for more. It's too easy to blame Congress, but the Big Guy signed it so it's his fault too.

We know we can all come together to make this country great, but the last eight years, not only have we not wanted to, but we lived in fear of our neighbor. We lived in fear of terrorist attacks and the Muslims down the street. It's hard to reach out to our fellow man when we'd been conditioned to fear him. Living in fear is not productive. Did you ever notice that when Bush's numbers initially got a little low, they'd trot out a supposed "threat" that had been squashed? But we got wise and it stopped.

I'm optimistic, but I'm not stupid. I know there's work to be done, and things will undoubtedly get worse before they get better. I'm okay with that, because this country is known for dusting itself off and coming back better and stronger than before.

So you'll have to excuse the euphoria - we're giddy for a number of reasons. Of course people will complain and make excuses and claim he's a failure in his first hundred days, but those groups will be the small fringe nuts who complain about just about everything. Every administration has them.

We don't get off our collective asses to fix this country, we all get to shoulder the blame.

25 days until pitchers and catchers report to spring training.
pjvj
Jan. 21st, 2009 02:14 pm (UTC)
Exactly. It is us who need to make a difference. If we don't (again) then we fail, too.

I agree there's no way it will get better before it gets worse because we've not hit the bottom yet. I expect people to be smart enough to know that, but that won't stop the naysayers. Bless the naysayers, for they are always with us, and will be the saddened voice that we no longer want to be our national voice, so when we hear them we will be moved to action.

It didn't take only 8 years to dig the ditch we're in, but 8 years of horrible leadership opened our eyes in a way 8 years of the typical mediocre leadership would never have done. Gee, something to thank Bush for, after all.

Doug should be excited about the 25 days. Me? I'm still in football mania.
xterminal
Jan. 22nd, 2009 04:55 am (UTC)
When none of it happens, the blame will be on the America people.

You get that, because you have a brain.

Most people (i.e., the ones you guys seem to think can be motivated) don't.
silly_lilly
Jan. 23rd, 2009 04:26 am (UTC)
LOOK IT'S XTERMINAL!
labrys6
Jan. 21st, 2009 01:33 am (UTC)
Come ON, there couldn't be TWO incompetent, arrogant idiots in the same job, right? Don't answer that if you plan an affirmative reply. I have not started drinking yet....
pjvj
Jan. 21st, 2009 03:13 am (UTC)
Um .... you asked if there *could* be ... have you opened your liquor bottle yet? If not, you should. :P~
labrys6
Jan. 21st, 2009 03:22 am (UTC)
Sheesh. Tempted enough....for that bottle. Website issues driving me batshit crazy.
( 16 comments — Leave a comment )